Wednesday, January 4, 2012

Warriors Six [Blood and Treasure]

Looking at the duelist class that I posted last night, I thought it might be a good idea to "roll up" the various fighting classes and see how they stack up in comparison to one another. My method was as follows:

Used Hamete dice server to roll up a set of stats using 3d6. I was going to re-roll until I got a set that would allow all the classes, but got lucky on the first try. The array was 16, 16, 16, 10, 8, 8 and was used for all of the different characters.

I ignored race - I wanted to compare and contrast the classes without any other interference; likewise, I didn't use the optional feats

I placed each character at 6th level, to see how they stacked up in the "sweet spot"

Hit points were average for the class's Hit Dice

I gave each character the best armor permitted by their class

Thus, the Warriors Six ...

Barbarian, Level 6 (Shield-Biter)

STR 16 (+2); DEX 16 (+2); CON 16 (+2); INT 8 (-1); WIS 10; CHA 8 (-1)

HP 45; ATTACK +5; AC 18 (ring + shield); SAVES – FORT 8; REF 11; WILL 13

Abilities: Land speed +10 ft., rage (2/day, two attacks per round, +2 to Str-related tasks, -2 AC), foes gain no tactical advantage from flanking, sneak attacks or invisibility, immune to extra damage from sneak attacks by thieves of 8th level or less

Skills: Bending Bars (8), Breaking Down Doors (8), Climbing (8), Jumping (8), Surviving (13), Swimming (8)

Duelist, Level 6 (Daredevil)

STR 10; DEX 16 (+2); CON 16 (+2); INT 16 (+2); WIS 8 (-1); CHA 8 (-1)

HP 39; ATTACK +5; AC 17 (leather + buckler); SAVES – FORT 11; REF 8; WILL 14

Abilities: Add intelligence bonus to AC, +2 to hit with special attacks, +4 AC when fighting defensively, +2 to initiative rolls

Skills: Balancing (8), Jumping (13)

Fighter, Level 6 (Grognard)

STR 16 (+2); DEX 16 (+2); CON 16 (+2); INT 8 (-1); WIS 8 (-1); CHA 10

HP 45; ATTACK +5; AC 21 (plate + shield); SAVES – FORT 8; REF 11; WILL 14

Abilities: Attack twice per round

Skills: Bending Bars (8), Breaking Down Doors (8), Riding (11)

Human Monk, Level 6 (Monk)

STR 10; DEX 16 (+2); CON 16 (+2); INT 8 (-1); WIS 16 (+2); CHA 8 (-1)

HP 33; ATTACK +3; AC 15 (unarmored); SAVES – FORT 8; REF 8; WILL 8

Abilities: Flurry of blows (extra attack, -1 to hit an all attacks), stunning blow (1/day; save or stunned for 1d4 rounds), unarmed attacks (1d6 damage, treat as though from +1 weapon); deflect arrows (1/round), land speed +10 ft., reduce fall by 20 ft., immune to all normal diseases

Skills: Balancing (8), Bending Bars (10), Breaking Down Doors (10), Climbing (10), Jumping (10)

Paladin, Level 6 (Knight)

STR 16 (+2); DEX 8 (-1); CON 10; INT 8 (-1); WIS 16 (+2); CHA 16 (+2)

HP 27; ATTACK +5; AC 18 (plate + shield); SAVES – FORT 10; REF 14; WILL 11

Abilities: Smite chaotic creatures (3/day; +2 to hit, +6 damage), heal damage (6 hp/day), immune to fear, turn undead as 3rd level cleric, paladin spells (1 x 1st), remove disease 1/week

Skills: Riding (14)

Human Ranger, Level 6 (Pathfinder)

STR 16 (+2); DEX 16 (+2); CON 10; INT 8 (-1); WIS 16 (+2); CHA 8 (-1)

HP 27; ATTACK +5; AC 19 (chain + shield); SAVES – FORT 10; REF 8; WILL 11

Abilities: Giant Slayer (+2 to track, extra attack each round vs. giants), ranger spells (1 x 1st)

Skills: Climbing (8), Hiding (8), Moving Silently (8), Surviving (11), Swimming (8), Tracking (11)

A quick analysis of the stats (just ranking the classes and assigning some points for best - second best - third best) makes me think the Fighter and Ranger are okay, the Barbarian might be a little too okay, the Paladin a little weak (mostly because he needs those high scores in Wisdom and Charisma - perhaps I could improve his saving throws) and the Duelist comes off as the weakest. I might boost the duelist's Hit Dice to d10 from d8 and look into some additional skills and perhaps another special ability. Of course, it will really come down to playtesting to see what's what.


  1. That was my first thought too - the Barbarian comes across as a bit too awesome.

  2. The barbarian looks awesome because of the immunities and high HP, reduce or remove some immunities (to invisibility?) the paladin looks weak -imho- because its cleric like powers are not so combat-centered. Try comparing the paladin to other non-fighting classes, if he still looks weak you might indeed have a problem.
    Regarding the duelist you might be better of giving him some of the barbarian's immunities rather than increasing his HD type.
    A few questions:
    Will skills be very different from 3.x?
    Will you get rid of Feats?
    Are multiple attacks gone except for fighters?
    Best regards

  3. OK,I've read the older posts about skills.

  4. Feats are there as an optional thing, so folks don't feel as though they have to use them.

    Fighters primarily get the multiple attacks, but monks have the flurry of blows, barbarians pick up an extra attack when they rage and rangers get an extra attack against their "favored enemy". Other than that - one attack per customer, like in old school D&D.

    I might scale back the barbarian a bit - I think the original designers were going for the "Conan cat-like reflexes" thing, and I'd like to preserve some aspect of that. I think the paladin's big liability is that he has to put better ability scores into non-combat related ability scores. I might change that as well - make it such that he must have a 13+ in Strength and Wisdom rather than Wisdom and Charisma.

    Duelist needs some work - I'll figure it out.

  5. Am I right in thinking that the saving throws of Fort, Ref and Will are "roll over"?

  6. Yes, roll that number or higher on d20. In the above example, they already have the characters' ability score bonuses or penalties factored in.


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